Curse

Tramp · Nov 21, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.

7 minutes was a rarity, but nevertheless, 12 hours later, what are the times down to? 30-40 minutes? Any bets on 20 minutes before the weekend is up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.

Now that is some scary stuff. That isnt nerfing one overbuffed skill, that is taking the nerf bat to farming in general. If that happens, I am history too. Like Joe Fierce, farming is all that is left for fun. SF can go away or stay and I wouldnt care a bit, but whack the other stuff, and WoW or Aion or whatever, here I come.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live.

Fortunately that sounds like a LONG time away then, but scary none the less. By the way, what personal agendas do these Test Krewe people bring to the table regarding farming, or are they mind numbed bots grabbed from {insert name here of random town} and have no biases?

Life Bringing · Nov 21, 2009, 07:27 AM // 07:27

So, since the update to touch of dhuum AND dhuum's AI, he has become ridiculous, even for sf sins. He can no longer be bodyblocked or glitched against a wall, and the DP leads to being spiked down because of lower health. I dont see how a regular team could do this tbh.

pumpkin pie · Nov 21, 2009, 07:40 AM // 07:40

what is this obsession to make people play the game longer than is necessary? Isn't it ArenaNet's "ideal" that people should be able to enjoy the game and not waste an enormous amount of time farming?

Lord Sojar · Nov 21, 2009, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofDeath

What good do solo players do for the community or game anyway? You can play a solo game offline ala Dragon Age or Titans Quest or Diablo 2 all solo players do is add lag to the game and lower value of things to the point for those that group or would rather group than solo can't get any value on things they finally do get. So, who cares if they quit I don't. I would rather have a handful of community multiplayers than a world of anti socialites.

Don't get me wrong, I never suggested that they really benefit the community in anyway, shape, or form.

However, looking at it from an in game economic standpoint, they do benefit the greater good. They farm for a lot of materials, which floods the market with goods (weapons, etc) and supplies (ecto). While this does inflate prices to some degree, Guild Wars is not exactly a shining example of real economics at work. Thus, it takes a long period of time for the economy of GW to go into a period of inflationary flux, and so... for a time, ecto may be available in large quantity for specific high end purchases. This benefits you, them, and the sellers of high-end/in demand items.

In addition, you are still attempting to look at it from a gamer's perspective, instead of that of a company trying to keep whatever interest they can into a game that is losing traction. ANET doesn't have to keep players interested in the game based on their business model, but at the same moment, they do. It all equates to keeping players that enjoy the game at least motivated enough to comeback every so often, which lines them up for a Guild Wars 2 purchase and future titles within said franchise.

This really isn't too difficult to understand when you look at it from that concept and model.

upier · Nov 21, 2009, 08:00 AM // 08:00

I approve!
I am bored and need to be entertained and the QQ from the people that are not good enough to complete the hardest content with hench will be sufficient.

Good times ahead!

Lord Sojar · Nov 21, 2009, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I approve!
I am bored and need to be entertained and the QQ from the people that are not good enough to complete the hardest content with hench will be sufficient.

Good times ahead!

There are better cures for boredom, which include but are not limited to:

Drinking
Smashing your head against a wall until you bleed
Watching paint dry/grass grow
Doing something else not listed here and not related to posting useless crap in a useless crap QQ thread that seems to endlessly repeat itself and will probably spell the end of a few mods sanity.

Frankly, these types of threads are getting boring, because the people who post them are typically (though not always) of the following demographics:

Obsessed with a game that is pretty far past the point of true recovery
Naturally enjoy bitching/QQing/complaining about anything they can
Don't understand any other side to an issue except what their narrow minds can create
Don't care about what other people think, but believe that their opinion is above that and it doesn't matter.
Believe (in a naive fashion I might add) that a game mechanic is going to change just because they and other forum users believe that it needs to be changed (when the fact is, a very small percentage of the GW community actually bother with forums such as GWG)

Note, you can probably combine the demographics above in the case of many people!

upier · Nov 21, 2009, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Why must there ALWAYS be one that does not find fun in taking candy from a baby with the sole intent of watching it cry?

Lord Sojar · Nov 21, 2009, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Why must there ALWAYS be one that does not find fun in taking candy from a baby with the sole intent of watching it cry?

Because I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, everything and nothing, I am RAHJA! Now, this is getting rather off topic, so I must now get it back on target.

This wasn't ANET's solution to "fixing" Shadow Form, so you guys can stop making these absolutely mundane, nearsighted, and naive threads over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Joe Fierce · Nov 21, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Don't get me wrong, I never suggested that they really benefit the community in anyway, shape, or form.

However, looking at it from an in game economic standpoint, they do benefit the greater good. They farm for a lot of materials, which floods the market with goods (weapons, etc) and supplies (ecto). While this does inflate prices to some degree, Guild Wars is not exactly a shining example of real economics at work. Thus, it takes a long period of time for the economy of GW to go into a period of inflationary flux, and so... for a time, ecto may be available in large quantity for specific high end purchases. This benefits you, them, and the sellers of high-end/in demand items.

In addition, you are still attempting to look at it from a gamer's perspective, instead of that of a company trying to keep whatever interest they can into a game that is losing traction. ANET doesn't have to keep players interested in the game based on their business model, but at the same moment, they do. It all equates to keeping players that enjoy the game at least motivated enough to comeback every so often, which lines them up for a Guild Wars 2 purchase and future titles within said franchise.

This really isn't too difficult to understand when you look at it from that concept and model.

Are you suggesting that people actually should use forward thinking to predict outcomes of their petty selfish requests. THIS IS THE INTERNET, THAT IS NOT ALLOWED! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING RAHJA? I want, now, instant gratification, mememememememememememe!

tw1tchdp · Nov 21, 2009, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Has it occured to any of you in opposition to Shadow Form that it may, in fact, have been changed to facilitate those that are still interested in GW1? I mean, without SF the way it is now, what percentage of current players would still be playing? I would guess low 30%s... just a guess, but it seems viable.

Guild Wars 1 has been on a steady decline for a long time now, and that isn't going to change. My guess is that the Test Krewe (of which I am a part of, thank god for the understanding of game mechanics and marketing in one handy dandy person or two!) will be able to evaluate SF from a gaming perspective, and that many of will be able to weigh the pros and cons of the skill, both from a general gameplay balance aspect (as much as can be achieved with the current madness that is to be called balance in GW1) and from a marketing/longevity of the series standpoint.

YEAH. Totally ASSASSIN WARS is such a rad game broski. Anet, f'n ridiculous. You attempt to "slow down UWSC"s and in the process forget that people who enjoy playing other classes would like to do the area as well. I dont understand, Regina brings up the UWSC 7 minutes, to 85 minutes thing. Get REAL. Still your going to be completing it twice as fast as most balanced groups, not to mention those new fairy items that are brought into the game are going to be hearded by the people who originally went in for ectos/eblades are now going to come out with an even bigger reward for the extra time. so in reality SF lamers just slapped you all in the face. ANet = terrible.

Bryant Again · Nov 21, 2009, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

I just posted this on the wiki.
I would like to take the time to address a couple of questions that came up after the latest scheduled game update.

The re-design of the Underworld was intended as a way to add fun new content to the game while preventing ridiculously fast speed clears up the Underworld. (For example, the first Shadow Form group to beat Dhuum took 85 minutes rather than the 7 minutes it used to take similar groups to clear UW.)

This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills.

Work on this next update is currently in progress, but it looks like it will not happen this month. We are aiming for not only “tweaking numbers” of certain skills, we are looking into making changes that will require extensive testing and implementation time. We intend to heavily involve the Test Krewe in testing and evaluating the changes before they go live. Unfortunately it took longer than expected to get the Test Krewe off the ground.

I hope this sheds a little bit of light on what’s happening and where we are going.

Interesting...

It's good to see farming being looked at as a whole and not nit-picking on popular builds, too.

The Drunkard · Nov 21, 2009, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Has it occured to any of you in opposition to Shadow Form that it may, in fact, have been changed to facilitate those that are still interested in GW1? I mean, without SF the way it is now, what percentage of current players would still be playing? I would guess low 30%s... just a guess, but it seems viable.

Guild Wars 1 has been on a steady decline for a long time now, and that isn't going to change. My guess is that the Test Krewe (of which I am a part of, thank god for the understanding of game mechanics and marketing in one handy dandy person or two!) will be able to evaluate SF from a gaming perspective, and that many of will be able to weigh the pros and cons of the skill, both from a general gameplay balance aspect (as much as can be achieved with the current madness that is to be called balance in GW1) and from a marketing/longevity of the series standpoint.

30%...You know not everyone does high-end pve.

I fail to see why removing the playerbase devoted to SF farming is bad for the game- after a few months of getting all the money they could ever want they are going to quit because of lack of content. The reason most people use SF nowadays (including me) in order to farm for cash to fill out their HoM so they are ready for GW2. People who still want to farm after a nerf to SF will jump on a 600/smite or OB (which should also be looked at) and still make lots of money.

Anet should focus on removing invincibility builds from the game, AND find the reason why people jump to invincibility in an area instead of tank n' spank. Then they should spend their time trying to fix the problem with the resources they have (aka adjust levels and skills on monsters). Then again, no game wants to spend their time fixing all of the inherent problems based on the community’s whim.

My expectations with anet are pretty low right now compared to what they've done in the past, so I really don't care anymore on how they want to drag out their game.

Ninja Ninja · Nov 21, 2009, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw1tchdp

YEAH. Totally ASSASSIN WARS is such a rad game broski. Anet, f'n ridiculous. You attempt to "slow down UWSC"s and in the process forget that people who enjoy playing other classes would like to do the area as well. I dont understand, Regina brings up the UWSC 7 minutes, to 85 minutes thing. Get REAL. Still your going to be completing it twice as fast as most balanced groups, not to mention those new fairy items that are brought into the game are going to be hearded by the people who originally went in for ectos/eblades are now going to come out with an even bigger reward for the extra time. so in reality SF lamers just slapped you all in the face. ANet = terrible.

Sadly I cannot agree more with your post, the amount of money the assassins will make out of farming the new UW in the next 2 months might rival the amount they make just on ecto's from more years of normal UW farming, so i don't want to see any assassin cry threads about this nerf because time crying is time you could be spending farming me up a mini dhuum lol

Fril Estelin · Nov 21, 2009, 11:01 AM // 11:01

I approve of Dr. House's intervention! (j/k: moving company, or takign a break from Guru, made you more interesting :P)

Tenebrae · Nov 21, 2009, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

what is this obsession to make people play the game longer than is necessary? Isn't it ArenaNet's "ideal" that people should be able to enjoy the game and not waste an enormous amount of time farming?

I guess that its coming from the same source of ppl to play the game and content in the less time possible using the high amount of broken mechanics they can.
You are blind , "farming" it self is not the problem , never was. Its balance itself and broken skills that make the word "challenge" or "hard" turn into "SC" and "joke". If you like so much farming , you picked the wrong game , Lineage2 exists and korean games , hf mate , cheers .

pumpkin pie · Nov 21, 2009, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

I guess that its coming from the same source of ppl to play the game and content in the less time possible using the high amount of broken mechanics they can.
You are blind , "farming" it self is not the problem , never was. Its balance itself and broken skills that make the word "challenge" or "hard" turn into "SC" and "joke". If you like so much farming , you picked the wrong game , Lineage2 exists and korean games , hf mate , cheers .

see,, thats where you are wrong, pumpkin pie doesn't farm. Ask me how many time I have cleared FoW UW, or how many time i have kill mallyx.

for someone who play like me, SF is of the least concern. only farmers will care what other farmers can do in how long a time. Weather SF is nerf or taken out of the game has little concern to me. Or how other people are getting their game cash and weapons from, does not concern me, thats why I ask why it is such a concern to the QQ players.

Frankly, I couldn't care less how fast some stranger can clear what area. I much rather ArenaNet take care of the "cheat" thats been happening. like using texmod for cartography, autoclicker for drunkard and sync ....

FYI: I have yet to see an arm brace

rb.widow · Nov 21, 2009, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Funny isnt it, Anet nerfed UB because it was too powerful, clearing Elite areas fast etc wasnt supposed to happen, along comes Perma Sin and Anet ignores it, there fix was to make the Elite area dam near impossible for normal players,

So why not revert UB to its old form, then everyone else in the community can run the HM with ease just like the permas do.

I can bet that in GW2, there will be no builds like this, all builds that can make no damage taken will be nerfed in a heartbeat.

Tenebrae · Nov 21, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

see,, thats where you are wrong, pumpkin pie doesn't farm. Ask me how many time I have cleared FoW UW, or how many time i have kill mallyx.

Instead ill ask you another thing , where did i say that you are a farmer ? or that you farm ? I asked "IF" you like bla bla , dont make mistakes , i wasnt guessing nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

for someone who play like me, SF is of the least concern. only farmers will care what other farmers can do in how long a time. Weather SF is nerf or taken out of the game has little concern to me. Or how other people are getting their game cash and weapons from, does not concern me, thats why I ask why it is such a concern to the QQ players.

See ? thats where you are wrong. Im not a farmer and i dont care , im leaving this game in about 2 months so care = -7 . I just see the bigger picture , see skill bars , see what is going on in the game right now ..... and if you do those things and cant see SF is broken , you must be blind.

Its a matter of balance , is not like it affects me or not , not like my life is at risk or whatever , its simple perspective. Please , dont be mistaken , you speak like all ppl that agrees with a SF nerf is a cryer and thats not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Frankly, I couldn't care less how fast some stranger can clear what area. I much rather ArenaNet take care of the "cheat" thats been happening. like using texmod for cartography, autoclicker for drunkard and sync ....

Ignoring a problem doesnt solve it ; the fact that this problem doesnt bother you or affect you doesnt mean it dont exist or that it dont matter. Like Dr House said "Doing things change things .... doing nothing changes nothing" ( or smthing like that ).

Anyway , check reginas post , enough said

Zebideedee · Nov 21, 2009, 01:10 PM // 13:10

To OP, this is not an opinion, this is cold hard fact!

The SF abusers who think they are all that, I've played with (oh dear) a few on their alternate chatacters who have tormented shields & VS etc. and they have totally, totally sucked. I'm talking about easy missions/quests, they got it into their heads that they are Chuck Norris or something. But thats probably A-Net's fault for not letting them type /godmode into console with every profession?

I'd love it if A-Net removed/changed the game so that SF/55'ing etc wasn't possible, the QQ threads would be hilarious

DragonRogue · Nov 21, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by rb.widow

Funny isnt it, Anet nerfed UB because it was too powerful, clearing Elite areas fast etc wasnt supposed to happen, along comes Perma Sin and Anet ignores it, there fix was to make the Elite area dam near impossible for normal players,

So why not revert UB to its old form, then everyone else in the community can run the HM with ease just like the permas do.

I can bet that in GW2, there will be no builds like this, all builds that can make no damage taken will be nerfed in a heartbeat.

Nail on the head. Why dont we bring back ursan?

Our guild tried UW with the balanced team set up that we have used in UW to clear it for years now and failed epically. We will be trying again all weekend to do it tho, because we like the new challenge. However, we dont care that people use SF to clear anything, nor did we care when it was Ursan, or 600. What is starting to grate on my nerves is the constant need to create a new profession, run it thru all the games, just so we can play this game. First it was the loss of our Elem/sin farmers nerfed to uselessness because of damage reduction in SF, so we created perma sins just to have the areas in the game nerfed, such as budger (god forbid we make 200k off holiday items for a weekend intsead of ectos and obby blades 24/7/365), then it was to create monks so we could farm with them instead. Now i need a friggin paragon to do UW? What the hell is it gonna be next month Anet? Instead of fixing the skills to balance out things, you fix the areas so gimicky builds and specific classes are the only ones who can do it. Its gotten to the point now where i need all 10 classes just to play this game and its annoying as hell. At least with Ursan, if i wanted to play in an area my ranger wasnt wanted, id still get to play. Which reminds me, why dont you buff up my Incendiary Arrows so i can take out half a party in two hits too. Then maybe my ranger could get a group around this game.